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there is no spoon: a review of Matrix Reloaded
Well, it's ... complicated. :) I had a window of time today at noon, so I just got up and went to the theater. Got there early, snatched a row-ten-center seat, and waited. And waited. Then the movie began. An action sequence! Oh, boy! Bullet-time, shooting... and shooting... and more shooting... okay, okay, we've seen the bullets fly, now please move on... Still more shooting. Is this another trailer? I thought. It wasn't. Finally that one ended, change of scenery and so on. Carrie-Anne Moss looks at Keanu Reeves across a rusted metal table and says, softly: "Do you want to talk?" I laughed. It's Keanu Reeves there, Carrie-Anne! He has the conversational abilities of a dead racoon! She didn't hear me. She kept trying to talk to him. Oh well. Before I go on, there is something I want to clarify: while the effects in the movie are "ok" (as I feared, there can be "too much of a good thing"), the cinematography is fine, and so on, I'm holding off on forming an opinion on story yet. It seemed to be going badly but then at the end we witness a couple of twists that can not only explain all the strange things that happened before, they can also easily redeem the entire series if taken to proper conclusions in The Matrix Revolutions. Depending on how it ends, it could be a masterpiece, or not. More below... If you are going to see it, make sure to wait until after the end of the credits: there's a trailer for Matrix Revolutions which isn't available anywhere else yet. Spoiler Warning: I'm talking about a lot of the "surprises" in Reloaded below, so continue reading only if you have seen the movie, or if you don't mind knowing a bit more than you're supposed to. One thing that I found hilarious was the continued metaphysical arguments the characters engage in, particularly in the presence of Neo. These dialogue-sections follow a pattern similar to this: Neo: Why am I here?While it can be amusing to follow some of the logical and philosophical implications of what's said (for example, when the Oracle tells Neo that he's there "to understand the choices he's already made, rather than to make them" we are being told that in The Matrix fate is not only a reality, it's part of the program) and to think about all the discourses on causality, reality, and so on, they can be a bit trying at times; for some reason they feel a bit (just a bit) phony. Maybe it's Keanu's zero-reaction face. Or maybe it's just that there seems to be little point to them, except... Except that there might be a reason for all of this metaphysical discussion and clue-chasing. We had seen increasing signs that Neo wasn't so special, we've seen the phantom-Twins, the enigmatic bodyguard of the Oracle, the Oracle herself, the Keymaker that says little except "this is what I'm supposed to do", the self-replicating Agent Smith, and, of course, The Architect. The action in the movie as it progresses feels more and more scripted. That is, as time passes it becomes more difficult to believe that this is really happening. Agent Smith is out of control. The Oracle runs around without much problem. The Phantom-Twins seem more powerful than any Agents, and suddenly Morpheus can fight off an agent, at least for a while. In the meantime, we are treated to a list of enigmatic pronouncements and complex statements about reality. Credibility is more and more strained. And then the Merovingian that tells Neo that he has "survived all the others". The others? But wasn't the story that there had been one guy that had freed the first humans from the Matrix? And that Neo is the next one? At this point it helps to consider some of the apparent holes in the logic of the first Matrix movie, and this one. For example:
Until we meet "The Architect." Ah. Here it was. The dialog was a bit heavy as before, but suddenly we had something new: a revelation. The Architect's explanation clears up a lot of the questions. It goes like this: In the Matrix there will always be a small amount of people that will reject the "virtual" world imposed on them. Given time, they might compromise the system. So, instead of trying to squash them, the Architect simply built an escape for them. He gave them a cause, and the prophecy to chase. He gave them enemies. Then every once in a while, he used a new Neo (or One) gather them all in a sense, eliminate them, and then start again. Zion is reborn, sponsored by The Matrix!. The threat is contained, properly channeled. The Matrix wins, and the humans always think that they are just about to. We learn this has already happened six times in the past, which means, suddenly, that everything we know from Morpheus about the real world and so on is a lie. The year is not 2199. But if that's not the truth then... The unknown this time could be Agent Smith, who is now replicating itself. Or it could be part of the cycle... So given this information, at the very minimum we now know that this whole idea of Neo as the savior is not true. He's a pre-programmed pawn. The question for the third movie is, will he be able to break out from that? Or is it even part of the cycle that he breaks out? There's another, even more intriguing possibility: that the "real world" of Zion, is actually within the Matrix itself. This is all hypothetical, my own speculation, but along these lines is where I think that the story could really become something. The potential is there. Let me explain. Consider: we already know that The Matrix has been "managing" Neo and the rebels for several cycles, to control them enough so that they think they are winning and they don't take over the Matrix. If it was the Matrix itself that "created" the first Neo, then why put humans out in the real world? Why not just make them think they've been "extracted"? So then the "real world" of Zion is just another Matrix enclosing the "normal" Matrix. The first is for "rebels", "anomalies" that don't accept the program. The second is for accepting humans. This theory can be supported by that last scene where Neo stops the sentinels with a gesture, just as he would do inside the Matrix, and by the fact that Agent Smith has also shown up in "the real world". There is one more reason why this theory could be correct. Consider: all the "special beings" we've seen in the Matrix, such as the Keymaker, Agent Smith, The Twins, and so on, are all software. Because of that, they can see and manipulate the structure of the Matrix. But if they are all software... Then Neo is software too! It sounds reasonable: the Matrix creates him, and in fact he has appeared several times already as we saw in the end. He behaves like other "software", in that, although very powerful he is still limited, for example, the Twins can de-materialize, Neo can't. If Neo is software from the "upper" level of the Matrix, the "Matrix for rebels", when he plugs into the lower level of the Matrix he can manipulate its reality. But at the end of Reloaded we see that maybe he has learned to manipulate the upper level of reality as well. (And is this part of the cycle the Matrix has planned?) If so there might be a chance of actually cracking through to the surface, the actual reality (for what it's worth). All of this explanation has the additional bonus that it "cancels out" the seemingly illogical stuff that happened before. Does Neo's path feel contrived? Of course, it was planned by the Matrix. Does it feel at times that the Matrix is not putting up much resistance? Of course, it needs Neo to succeed, but not that easily. Is Morpheus a zealot? Sure, he was probably programmed to be one :) Okay, and now for even more wild speculation: why would the Matrix go to all this trouble? If you watch Animatrix you see that the machines, at the beginning, were actually benevolent, trying to be at peace with humans. It was humans who rejected them, and started the war. Now look at the Oracle in Reloaded, talking about how the only way this will work is if both machines and man work together. Could it be that this whole thing is a really, really convoluted way of making humans see what they should do? Mmmm... Anyway, while speculation is all well and good, I have no idea what might happen. The trailer for Revolutions didn't say much of anything, so I'm in the dark. But I think that it's clear that, properly done, the story could work well. And there could be many endings that work well, such as "the cycle begins again..." or "they actually escape" or... The title for the next movie is plural, "Revolutions", which could be a reference to the past revolutions (the cycle?), or that there are multiple revolutions that will happen along this section of the cycle. In summary, I'm reserving my final opinion until I've seen the next movie. Everything could change: it's all in place. The elements for a masterpiece in science fiction are there. So are the elements for a major disaster in the history of storytelling. I am optimistic, but we'll see. We only have to wait until November... Categories: art.mediaPosted by diego on May 22 2003 at 9:34 PM Comments (please see the comments & trackback policy).
It would be kind of anti-climatic, but it could be that the whole thing is a simulation to get programs to think that they are human. Then what actually happens when the programs find out that they are just programs and not real people. Posted by: Dan Countryman at May 23, 2003 2:16 AMExcellent review! I really hope that Revolutions knocks us on our asses. I find it amusing how many people ripped Reloaded until they actually thought about it for a moment (or I believe that they will change their minds upon a second, third or fourth viewing). Posted by: Anthony Eden at May 23, 2003 5:49 PMNice summary. It could be that the room the architect inhabits is a level above both the accepting and rebel worlds. It's interesting that Neo has more problems with belief than the humans he is helping. Hope isn't too strong in him, until the end of the conversation with the architect. Maybe the architect is shooting for an AI (Neo) who can bring this hope thing back in a readable form so he can develop a new release of norton to take care of it once and for all. But, in the mean time Smith has a whole new viral effect going on. I think Smith wants in that door to the top level. He was waiting for them, and was not a little pissed when they slipped through. That could be the major problem in Revolutions (hence that Smith gauntlet in the trailer- something tells me Smith could take out the architect in November and get almost full control) Neo to the rescue. Right ; ) The french speaking Ian Schrager type has some access to upper levels too. Didn't I hear his sexy sidekick talk about them coming from somewhere and Merovingian being different then? The oracle doesn't seem to talk all that "find out why" crap to the humans. She just tells them what's going to happen. With Neo (a programmed "what" looking for a "why") she's all into forget what and figure out why. I think he's a bot programmed to think like a human, a dull human at that. You've got to admit, Keanu is perfect for that part. Posted by: doug powell at May 25, 2003 6:35 AMI agree with many of your hypothetical ideas and your acceptance of multiple possibilities. I tend to lean toward the "Zion still a facade" theory due to Neo's Sentinel stopping at the close of the movie. It would be the perfect control. But I am intrigued by the "mother" of the matrix...obviously not the oracle by the Architechs statement...why not Persephone? She's an exile and since the Merovigian and her are technically collectors of old programs...they should be quite old too. The architech said the mother was originally a psychological analysis program...which fits Persephone, remember the kiss sequence? Its as if Neo is upgraded to a new version each time he restarts...like the Architech said, "Your predecessors were set to have a deeper emotional response to your race but your more focused on love..." IE:Trinity...I'd love to hear some thoughts on this and its implications... Posted by: Josh Linder at May 25, 2003 9:14 PMI wish I had a recording of that architect conversation. I seem to remember him saying that if he was the father the oracle could be considered the mother, if either description was appropriate. What if the matrix is good? Going back to the original question, "What is the matrix?" For a real twist, the humans fought each other and wiped out the planet. The machines built the matrix to keep them alive underground and put them back in the best age they could build. The humans rejected the utopian paradise versions and there are still some who reject the current reality based construct. Then you get some programs who want to be gods, some with malevolent dispositions who manifest as ghosts and vampires. I am tending to agree with diego, that Morpheus is a program too. He's the John the Baptist construct who leads the Neo program to the realization that he isn't normal. No one ever beats an agent, except another agent. Morpheus is either a thoroughly indoctrinated/deluded human or an agent that acts like he's human. The rebels would actually muck up the works more than they think. The real world could be complete hell, not even livable outside the machine/matrix. You can't get out and really don't want to. I think the movie is a success if it can inspire this kind of discussion based purely on plot twists. Some of the philosophical and new age discussions seem pretty lame to me. "New age trekkies" comes to mind. But, the possible story-lines and plot developments for the third movie could make the series really impressive. The Neo predecessors were probably more messiah like. Overall compassion and self sacrifice for mankind and all that. Neo has a woman. That's a new trick for the messiah mold. Persephone is the angel that wants to be human and feel emotions through flesh and blood. (simulated flesh and blood of course. having the human brain wired in is still a bit better for emotions than pure software) The makers of this film have consciously tried to portray blacks in other roles besides the comic relief sidekick. All the way to having Nathaniel West on the Zion council. I'm fairly certain that you will find the Oracle is here to stay and is the Yin to the Architects Yang. Her "To thine own self be true" lessons are rooted in psychology. She's the one who gets into people's heads with the do you want a cookie?/ how about a seat-you really want to sit/ you will have to make a CHOICE for Morpheus and Trinity decisions. She is very closely tied to this "choice" outside of pure cause and effect issue. She states the upcoming major choice in both movies. The tone of the actress doesn't resonate with people's idea of an oracle. Movie goers are being challenged to see black people as noble and wise in the second film even more than the first. When Neo absorbed and ejected Smith in movie one, he liberated a program that shouldn't be looking out for itself. This is going to be a big problem if he gets to the architect or oracle and pulls that hand in the chest trick. No more Matrix looking out for the humans then. Posted by: doug powell at May 25, 2003 10:16 PMWow! Good comments! A couple of things I wanted to add. Josh might be right that the 'mother' of the Matrix *could be* Persephone, rather than the Oracle. Doug was saying that the Architect seems to mention that the 'mother' is the Oracle, which is what I thought I remembered too, but thinking back, it seems that the Architect made a reference to the 'mother' and it was *Neo* who said "Ah, the Oracle". Hm. In fact, if we consider the symbology of the names, the Oracle wouldn't be much of a mother figure. But Persephone is something else entirely. In Greek mythology Persephone was the daughter of Demeter and Zeus (Zeus would be the Architect in the Matrix), and more or less the godess of the seasons. Hades, King of the Underworld (which would be the Merovingian) abducted her and took her to his underground kingdom (sound familiar?!!!). After resisting for a while, Persephone ended up loving him but her mother, angry at the situation, punished the earth’s inhabitants, with storms and cold winds, and it was clear that unless Persephone was returned to her mother’s side, the earth would be destroyed. In the end they ended up with a sort of "time-sharing agreement" wherein Persephone would spent part of the year with Hades and part with her Mother, which accounts for the seasons (her mother welcomes the arrival of Persephone with the Spring). It's good they didn't have to worry about hemispheres back then. :) Okay, the full story of persephone might not match, but the beginning certainly could. That aside, I agree with doug as well that the Matrix could actually be good, and trying to protect humans rather than subdue them. Regarding doug's 'Messiah' comments, what I also find interesting is that the Messiah here is just a pawn, and the introduction of Trinity as love-interest is one more nail in the coffin of the standard Messiah image in Western Culture. The "problem" with all of these plotlines is that most people probably won't like them. The first movie gave them the usual hero; I remember how people talked about references to Campbell's work "The Hero of a Thousand Faces". But if our ruminations are right, then it's The Matrix the one who has read that book, creating a hero to keep people happy. The audience is just as hapless as the "rebels" in the Matrix. We have no idea. Which I think would be great, but it will probably get the whole Trilogy blasted everywhere. It would be just too complex, too rich, anathema for big movie hits. The more I think about it, the more I get convinced that the Wachowski Brothers are building a sort of "Matrix" of their own. Starting with the first movie, using our expectations and building up things only to gleefuly tear them apart in a game of "See? Reality is NOT what you thought it was." If that's the case, it would be brilliant. Anyway, I don't want to get ahead of myself. I'm starting to get convinced that this is actually what will happen, while something entirely different might happen, or maybe (cross fingers) they might even muck everything up. But, as Anthony said, I really hope that Revolutions knocks us on our asses :) "What is the Matrix?" We won't get an answer until November. But already it's very cool that this kind of discussion is possible only based on plot twists, as Doug said. Maybe we're reading too much into it, but what the hell. I can't remember having this much fun analyzing a movie since Blade Runner (and was Deckard a replicant, or wasn't he? :)) Posted by: Diego at May 26, 2003 12:54 AMDiego, I agree with you that even if the third movie is a stinker the whole thing will be a success just because of the discussions it's spawned. I like the idea of the Wachowskis creating a Matrix from the Matrix -- showing people the world pulled over their eyes (24-hour 'news' service, .NET vs. Java, etc.) and people not even realizing it. Since the first movie made so much money I'd imagine they'd be able to have much more freedom to dictate their terms for the second and third movies. (Not absolute tho: I also heard they wanted to release the third four to six weeks after the first which apparently violates some industry commandment.) One of the interesting things I keep coming back to: you don't know of what you've seen is real, either. That is, we were told early on that the machines were using people for electricity, but there's no real reason to believe this is so. If the 'real world' is just another Matrix, then the Core needed to give the rebels something to rebel against -- slavery is one of the most potent forces of evil you can imagine. But if that's so then why *are* people still around? Fun fun fun... That's the thing about treating your plot as an onion: you never know when to stop peeling, especially when peeling is so much fun... Also, this link might be useful for folks here: http://www.corporatemofo.com/stories/051803matrix.htm Posted by: Chris at May 26, 2003 5:23 AMThe information on the Persephone myth certainly makes her a prime candidate for the mother role. It's a helluva feat getting a movie with real plot possibilities released as a major blockbuster. Merovingian collecting demons as his minions also fits with the devil/hades image. This could go on and on until November, and Warner Bros. is banking on that. I have mixed feelings about studios having worked closely with a few of them (even worked for WB when the original Matrix released). But, it's better than the typical sequel anticipation schemes. So, this year we have one trilogy that ends in a completely known manner (The Return of the King) and another where anything could happen. Until November & December we wait. Diego, I'm interested in clevercactus. Maybe you can answer a couple questions. I'll send you an email. Posted by: doug powell at May 26, 2003 8:30 AMThe architect conversation is here: http://www.gothamist.com/archive/002398.php Now, I'm going to wait until November. I promise. Posted by: doug powell at May 26, 2003 9:29 AMDoug, that link with the Architect's conversation is great! I was right in what I said, it's *Neo* the one who says "the oracle". The Architect brushes it off. Even reading it, it's still incredibly dense. It sounds snobbish to say this, but no wonder a lot of people didn't get it (In all fairness, I got a bit confused as well at the very end with the whole thing of which door did he choose--when reading it I confirmed what I thought happened but wasn't sure: Neo chose the door that led back to the Matrix and hence wasn't the savior of humanity, but will end up destroying the human race. So the cycle IS different this time. Presumably, that is). The plot thickens... very cool! Also, doug, regarding cactus no problem at all, just send questions, comments/etc. Posted by: Diego at May 27, 2003 1:33 AMI thought the people in this thread might appreciate a record of the conversation. I'm setting up Movable Type and ran across the Gothamist looking at some of the blog links on the MT site. I think the theory about Persephone is as good as any at this time. I read some of the comments on the Gothamist page until it started exhibiting the trekkie effect. When the jesus folks started showing up I decided to just leave it alone until later this year (like you mentioned too). The blog I'm configuring is for a site to allow LA artists, musicians and film makers to collaborate online (open source creative projects). clevercactus, TypePad, and spoon (the kuro5hin CMS) are currently at the top of my list for tools to use. I still need a decent P2P distributed storage solution for creative assets. None so far seem to really fit the bill. Spoon is being deployed this week (I hear it's not a trouble free install though, so it may take longer to get it solidly in place). Typepad is totally dependent on 6A (I can't see why they would object, the project is pretty well aligned with their values and could add to a growing TypePad value network). So, I need to find out how clevercactus could help with user identity. IM. mail, and integration with free form discussions in the blogs. I'll look at all the info on the cc site and contact you within a week. Unless, this comment triggers some connections you've been considering. Oh, and I'm looking for any good people I can get. I this reminds you of anybody, send them my way. doug Posted by: doug powell at May 27, 2003 3:52 AMI thought of all the things you said but one thing u didnt note was that all 5 of Neo's predecessors have chosen the door to reimplement their code and choose the new foreparents of the 7th Zion...Neo chose to save Trinity thus set forth a series of events which have not happened in either of the 5 previous similar scenarios. In the first movie, Morpheus et al talk about the CODES to Zion. In reloaded, when they enter Zion, the gatekeepers are avatars since their bodies are plugged into a computer system by their cranial interfaces. Why is this necessary? The only explanations that seem to make sense for the ending when Neo controls the sentinels is a) that they are in a submatrix, b) he has developed super powers (which is not very satisfying). What is the coma at the end about? Smith and Neo are now in REAL reality? The central issue is what happens at the end. How does he control those sentinals? Posted by: Squashua at May 28, 2003 5:25 AMHe can control the Sentinels because he is wired with the Matrix code. "Wait, something is different. I can feel them" They run with the same programming that he does. (Perhaps) Posted by: Tristan Clarke at May 28, 2003 6:05 AMSome interesting comments here backed up by what appears to be good evidence. For example that stuff about Persephone sounds highly likely Posted by: xenomorph at May 28, 2003 12:46 PMI wondered who else might think Neo is a program. I see I'm in good company. The idea that 'something is different this time' goes along with the self-replicating agent Smith, which surely must have significance. That he can send something of himself back out of the Matrix to Zion suggested to me that Zion must really be part of the Matrix too. He knows he is a 'machine' in the first movie and resents having to be in the Matrix, and knows that the first, failed Matrix was a utopia. I got the impression he considered himself a machine plugged in to the Matrix and not just a program. But if he's not a machine and if the Matrix is reset he will be just like the humans, trapped in the Matrix over and over again, and not knowing it. He will be reset along with the Matrix and lose his new insights and his new powers. Depending on what he understands of himself, the Matrix, and what is expected to happen, he may indeed "fight for us" in the next movie as mentioned a few posts above. Notably the Architect tells Neo it is impossible to keep Trinity from dying. Technically he's right, she dies but then he brings her back to life. Perhaps the ability to do that is key to the things that are different this time. But if she is supposed to die (permanently) but doesn't then something is very obviously different this time. Perhaps this allows him to bring her into the next Matrix to alter it even more radically, or more likely her being alive will somehow aid him in avoiding the resetting of the Matrix. I don't fully accept that the Architect has to reveal himself, supposedly so that Neo could choose to go to the Source. (Originally Neo wanted to go to the Source, but to destroy it from the inside.) Why do 23 people have to restart Zion, why not just one? Why does there have to be a "cataclysmic system crash" if he doesn't help? If the Matrix is a program, they can restart it from any earlier point, like the first days of Zion in the current itteration of the Matrix, without Neo's help. I expect that Morpheus is NOT a program. The uniqueness of Neo shouldn't be spoiled. Morpheus was brought in from a past Matrix, and he knows there was a previous "The One", but not that there were five. That's simply how much he was allowed to remember/know. The program that (along with Morpheus) helps find The One is the Oracle. She apparently evaluates, gathers and trains potential Ones'. How about another big twist: The Architect is, or at least was, a human. Presumably a super talented programmer that strove for perfection. He says that the 'mother' of the Matrix was a program, but he never says that he is one. That makes him either a traitor to the Human race, or a savior of it if, as someone suggested, the Matrix exists to help save what is left of the human race after some disaster. (Maybe they are in stasis until the Earth is again inhabitable and the Matrix keeps their minds stimulated.) I too found it a stretch that the Machines needed humans for some sort of energy [special biological energy, presumably]. Or perhaps the Matrix really is an evil tool of the machines but the Architect, being or having been human, is now trying to humanity get free of the Matrix for good. It would explain a system where they are allowing (indeed demanding) 23 people to go from one Matrix to the next, and allowing the Neos' to bring the seeds of improvement to the Neo of the next Matrix. At the least the current Neo is improved compared to the previous (5th) one. Posted by: Paradox99 at May 29, 2003 3:04 AMHow about we all list our beliefs...here are mine: 2) By choosing to save Trinity and not do what the other 5 'Ones' did, Neo has thus set forth a series of events that the AI neither intended, nor expected so what follows now is all new events. 3) Agent Smith is another unexpected factor in this 6th Matrix. 4) Everything the Architect said was factual and not an attempt to dupe Neo. 5) There is no Matrix within a Matrix (OH GOD I HOPE NOT EVEN THOUGH ITS A HIGHLY PLAUSIBLE IDEA) 6) at one point in Revolutions it will be revealed to the rest of the major players from Zion (Morpheus, Trinity, Niobe, and crew) that Neo is indeed more than simply human, but Neo will shock them by Still fighting for the survival of the human race "He fights for us." 7) There Merovingian will be shown to have a much greater importance to Neo than expected, whether he will be revealed to be a past 'ONE' is hard to speculate on, but he did indeed once have a good heart. Perhaps he and Persephone were the AI's attempt at just Creating a 'ONE' and a 'Trinity' but because of the complex nature of human kind the AI world failed in their attempt. And because of the Merovingians encoded powers e fell victim to the quote "absolute power corrupts absolutely" 8) Smith will gain powers similar to Neo's "God" like abilities and will fight Neo in a one on one SUPER BRAWL while his clones (the entire population of the 'Megotropolis') look on 9) Revolutions will be a darker, grittier, and all around better movie than Reloaded, perhaps it will mix the awe we felt in the orignal Matrix, with the splendor we saw in Reloaded but darker, and well...better. 10) The Trinity/Masked Man fight scene takes place either after or before a meeting with the enigmatic Merovingian. 11) With each Revolution, more and more things will pop out to us, even minute details and phrases that elluded our attention...this is indeed obvious...but I felt like mentioning it... **Thats it for now...but one more thing...DO NOT POST AN OPINION IF YOU DO NOT HAVE A COMPLETE UNDERSTANDING OF THE PRESENTED MATRIX UNIVERSE** Tristan, I agree that the options you describe are a possibility. However, regarding Neo controlling the sentinels in the real world just because he is 'wired' into the Matrix code, that would imply he has some sort of subconscious connection to the centralized mainframe that runs both the Matrix and the sentinels (in fact, the idea that a centralized mainframe runs both things is already a large assumption, and one that doesn't fit in our currently worlview where everything is becoming decentralized), and that "power" would be difficult to believe... As far as Morpheous being software, it's unlikely (Neo being software OTOH...) You're right that Neo appears to take an "uncharted course" in discarding the rebooting of Zion for Trinity. But we don't really know that... the Architect seems to know clearly that he's acting within his bounds ('But we already know we you are going to do don't we? Already I can see the chain reaction the chemical precursors that signal the onset of an emotion **designed specifically** to overwhelm logic and reason.') so maybe this is part of the plan as well. One thing that I didn't mention (and no one else did) is that Neo hides from the crew the fact that he has just sentenced the human race to extinction... he blows off Morpheous questions with a simple 'I'm just another form of control' (or something like that). Also, just for reference these two recent posts are sort of follow ups to these ideas: http://www.dynamicobjects.com/d2r/archives/002008.html http://www.dynamicobjects.com/d2r/archives/002025.html Posted by: Diego at May 29, 2003 2:33 PMI like the idea of the machines actually keeping the humans alive in a post-apocalyptic, uninhabitable world. Following along those lines, and what has been stated about Asimov's Laws of Robotics -- remember what happens to a Robot when they have to make a difficult decision regarding the laws? They are temporarily disabled. Just like Neo's coma. . . Posted by: Nobody special at June 2, 2003 3:51 AMThe law of robotics????? How about this. Not only is there a Matrix withgin the matrix, but there is five, each one representing a lesser version of the one we know. The architect talks of how he failed so made more Matrix's, so the whole coma thing could be Neo an Smith reacing into the second Matrix. Eventually Neo and Smith will fight together to break through all Matrix's, exploring as they go. In the end Smith fights vs Neo in a battle for "control." Neo wins, save the world (worlds) end of movie. Posted by: ike at June 3, 2003 7:03 AMIn reply to Tristan Clarke question about a post concerning the Law of Robotics. The post in question refered to Asimov's Laws of Robotics, in which one of the greatest Scifi writers of our time come up with several scenario's to chalenge and show the problems with a fully functional AI. Simple AI of course is based on scripting (ie: if x then y). More complex AI demands more complex scripting (If not X or Y then perhaps Z). The three Asimov's Laws of Robotics (AI) are: 1) A robot may not injure a human being, or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm. 2) A robot must obey the orders given it by human beings except where such orders would conflict with the First Law. 3) A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law. What if for example a robot paramedic was told to enter a building that was on fire on the first floor, but there where people on the third floor who needed medical attention. Which Laws should the AI follow? Which laws are in violation? Now comes a more relevant question? What will the AI CHOOSE to do? Rescue the people who are not in immediate danger, yet risk self preservation? Tell the human overseerer to kiss off? One would argue that the AI is not making a choice at all, instead following a set of prescripted choices. (If not Law 1 or 2 then 3?). It is said that if one cannot make a clear chioce without being under heavy constraints, then it is said that AI, person, etc ... has no free will. And thats what the Matrix: Reloaded makes us ask ourselves? Did I make that choice? or have we already made that chioce and we are here trying to figure out WHY we made that choice? Have a cookie ... ... and dont worry ... by the time we figure it out, Revolutions will be here and give us a question to ponder ;) Posted by: Christopher Wagoner at June 4, 2003 7:16 PMWow!... really good comments!... Just if you want to read the complete conversations, you can get the subtitles for both movies at http://www.divxsubtitles.net/... BTW, here is an alternative script for this movie, apparently writen by the Wachowski brothers... or maybe by another architect? :) I'll definitely wait till november... Posted by: Langus at June 9, 2003 5:16 PMWow!... really good comments!... Just if you want to read the complete conversations, you can get the subtitles for both movies at http://www.divxsubtitles.net/... BTW, here is an alternative script for this movie, apparently writen by the Wachowski brothers... or maybe by another architect? :) I'll definitely wait till november... Posted by: Langus at June 9, 2003 6:32 PMHello free minds! I would like to underline the following: 1) Neo is a sofware because: 2) We see agent Smith overwriting the projection of a rebel and then quitting the matrix by hard-line. We know the Smith is a software, and if he can cope in the Zion world, this mean it is a simulation too. Let's also consider that Neo can defeat the sentinels in the Zion world. And the Architect told him those refuse the matrix are kept under control. This is simply clear and the most obviuos thing we can suppose, but what will happen in the next episode ? I think that the reference to religious name/fact/symbols (pls read above postings) will continue in the last movie. Neo will sacrifice himself (or itsself) to save the human race.... What do you think 'bout. ??? Posted by: mmd78 at June 10, 2003 3:14 PMThe script that was posted is one of the 2 complete fake scripts the Brothers made...there is one scene involving a bike crash that would have been amazing to see...and I also like the Truly God-like state of Neo in this script...But it mostly reads like an incredibly interesting but clichedly cheesy comic book script...but I loved it...Overly violent, overly bloody, Choi was corny, and it would've been funny to give Keanu Reeves that many lines...(Just kidding) but I dunno...this would make a good Anime version...I'd buy that DVD if they made it into one :-/ Posted by: Tristan Clarke at June 11, 2003 10:20 AMthe plural in Revolutions could also mean that at the same time that the humans are rebelling against the machines, agent smith is also rebelling against the machine mainframe as well... we could in fact see all the programs join the fight... marovingian, oracle, seraph, the twins... Posted by: Animix at July 2, 2003 11:03 PMLooks like I have come in a little late but based on what paradox99 had said earlier about the architect being the one and later Tristan referring to Merovingian,at one moment I thought Copyright © Diego Doval 2002-2007.
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Okay, I've seen it. Did I like it?